Would it be possible to make an HD console that can’t render 3D graphics?

Share your perspective. Keep it thoughtful, welcoming and on topic.

1. I totally agree!!! I want complete realistic graphics on my games before even start to dabble in 3d stuff.
   I mean I play sports games a lot and still I complain every year about the lack of graphics upgrades. I understand weve come a long way with graphics but we still have a long way to go before we should even be thinking "3d"

2. I don't think it is technologically possible (even the gba had a set of its own 3d games), however it is possible to write an sdk that doesn't include tools for rendering polygons or that type of deal.

   Even then, though mode 7 is always possible and creating your own homebrew sdk is a possibility. In the end, it would come down the the licensing process not allowing 3d games.

   That said, I don't know a whole lot about hardware, so I could be way off. That and I'm assuming outputting HD takes a bit of power, seeing as Wii upscale have their own processors (if I recall correctly).

3. @Yamsta:

   I think we're talking about sprites vs polygons, not 3DS style 3D.

   @Blake:

   That would be like buying a DVD player that only plays hand-drawn amimated films…none of this fancy Pixar stuff 🙂 There are masterpieces in all mediums; why limit the potential? You liked DKC Returns, right? Polygons!

   And not every 2D game is a Yoshi's Island or Final Fight. Remember the flood of generic platformers and beat-em-ups on SNES and Genesis? 99% of it was awful. We only remember the good ones.

4. When I heard you guys talk about this on the podcast, my first thought was "I would pay a lot of money for a 'modern' NES". There is a place for 3D games, I love the college football games for example, but if Nintendo made 2D sidescrollers and top downs with the advantages of modern hardware, I think there would be a huge market for it.

5. the prob isnt that devolepers couldnt make awsome looking 2d games that will drop your pants on current hd consoles.

   but 2d sprite art take a lot of work and you need a awsome art team to make it work.

   building polygonal games yust take less time.

6. Technically speaking, I don't think it's possible. Even the SNES could render poligons at some point, so a console with enough power for HD would definitely enable poligon graphics. In my opinion, it would be a terrible idea for a real console. It doesn't make sense it today's gaming market to introduce this ape into a true business model. That's why downloadable software has sort of taken back that approach of 2D gaming like the recent Bit Trip games. iOS is also a forefront in simple 2D gaming, and since you can connect your iPad to the TV, you have that. There's already some pretty interesting 2DHD games coming like Rayman Origins and War of the Worlds, so it's not all lost. I just think that releasing a standalone-hook-up-to-the-TV 2DHD console is not a viable business enterprise from a developer standpoint, the hardware manufacturer, or even the consumer.

7. Of course it's possible. That'd be one cheap console. The real question is would it sell? That will determine whether it's possible or not, whether someone wants to invest their time and money. In this age of fps'ers, I doubt it. Video games, like music is a young peoples market. If it can't play FPS it won't be a success. This idea might be more suited to a portable console. Or you can just make a phone app that has only 2D games for download.

8. Ac-

   Videogames are not just a young person's market. The average player age gets older every year; in just a few years, most gamers will be between the ages of 30 and 60. Games, like most entertainment, are being absorbed into the fabric of mainstream pop culure. And old guys like me tend to spend the most money. Who the heck do you think bought all those Wii Fit boards? 🙂

9. If it's a gaming console, then it's a computer. And if it's a computer, it can be programmed to do 3D. Whether or not its powerful enough to adequately do 3D depends on what it had under the hood, but generally if you want a 2D only console to do awesome HD sprite based gaming and remain competitive in today's market, (like being able to provide a "Rayman Orgins" level of 2D graphics), then yeah, it'll be capable of doing 3D. The only way to prevent 3D games on a console is to put some sort of clause in the licensing agreement or to provide an extremely limited level of control when it comes to developing. Even if the SDK simply didn't provide the right tools and even if it used some proprietary language with incomplete libraries developers could still code their own 3D games – it would just take A LOT more work. Also, somehow limiting the console to 2D or preventing any 3D techniques from being used would limit the developers from using 3D math, effects or lighting in a 2D game, which could also detract from the capabilities of the system's 2D. In addition, if you created a console based around a 2D only philosophy you are practically begging homebrew hackers to embarrass your mission statement most likely within a week of the launch date.

   That said, it would be great to have a cheap $50 console that was digital-distribution-only that could play HD games and simply wasn't powerful enough to compete with the PS3, Xbox 360, on a 3D level and therefore got more 2d games. Unfortunately, I think that console would fail due to going after a niche market, as well as the fact that many would view it as a limited console. Hardcore gamers might dismiss it and casual gamers might be upsold by the other consoles, which would be advertised as being able to everything the 2D console could, and more.

   I think the best realization of what you're getting at would be a digital distribution model incorporated into existing ubiquitous hardware. Airplay lets an iPad wireless stream a game to an HD TV. This is just as possible with a smartphone, assuming the phone has enough power. As for a button controller- it could be a peripheral or a dedicated handheld could be the device doing the work (imagine the above mentioned iPad-to-TV connectivity only with a PS Vita or the next iteration of the 3DS).

   As for a major dedicated gaming company releasing a console exclusively for something like this? Suicide.

10. p.s. Sorry Blake I didn't mean my previous post to seem as harsh as it did when I read it right after posting, ha! It's a really interesting idea (and one I would love to see happen) its just that I can't imagine why anyone would release a product who's sole marketing idea would be that it COULDN'T do what the competition does. I can see this as something which comes to fruition as a bonus functionality of a product that already does a bunch of other things – i.e. Apple TV.

11. forcing limits on developers doesnt work, just look at the wii.

12. @NZA36

    While I certainly don't think the Wii is an amazing example of this, it's definitely a suitable one, counting the number of top-tier games on it.

    Look at systems like the GBA, though, who fought with the GameCube/Xbox/PS2. In the linked podcast, even, they were talking about how much better the GBA versions of licensed games were compared to the stronger-system's counterparts.

    Also…look at the DS. For quite a few of the games, the touch screen and dual screens aren't used really, the bottom typically being relegated to a map or inventory screen. Yet some of the greatest games of this generation are on this, compared to HD consoles, or even more directly, the PSP, which was significantly more powerful than the DS.

13. I don't think it would be possible. Is it really possible to make a console which can only render a certain type of graphics? Even the SNES and GBA could do limited 3D, and any console powerful enough to do HD graphics could be put to work for 2D games.

    So that leaves the option is forcing 2D games only via licensing. That might work, Sony used to do the opposite, require 3D games from most publishers. Questionable how many companies would develop or release games on the system though.

    As for whether it'd sell… possibly, depends if the system gets good games. Remember, most 2D games are as bad as most 3D games are, so the kind of games required, with less companies willing to make games for the system, would have to be exceptionally good.

14. i feel like tempted devs would just make games for other consoles, which doesn't really solve your problem.

15. no

16. I do believe that this would be technically possible. I hear that the only reason the SNES could display 3D images was because of a special chip in some of the games, like Starfox. I think it has something to do with the way the two kinds of data, 3D and 2D, are processed.

    Is this a viable business option? I believe not.

17. All I'm concerned about is: Even if this thing rendered 2D graphics (which may reduce its price by a huge amount), I'm still concerned that the games would still be costly.
    …I mean, I gladly paid full price for Odin Sphere and Muramasa when they came out.

    ……….. but what I'm saying is: I'm gonna' be buying Wii U games, 3DS games, PS Vita games, PS3 games, 360 games, AND ONE MORE console's games?? *cries*
    At least not every genre appeals to me on the 360 and PS3 (and upcoming PSV) market, so I'm reduced to purchasing only a select amount of games from them – but adding a console that mostly does 2D HD games?? My wallet's going to kill me for looking at it.

18. To the last person who commented… you do know there's this thing called 'not buying every single game you have the slightest interest in', right? If it's too much money to pay for games for all those consoles, buy less games and wait a while for some of the ones you don't care so much about.

19. To be quite honest, No. Game companies are obsessed with making games into "cinematic experiences". Give them hardware that limits them, and they cry that it stifles their "creativity".

20. @monkat

    Wii isn't suitable since 3rd parties don't want to put their best effort on Wii projects. If you can't get their best work, then the limitation failed. Konami may throw a B or C level dev team at a Wii game, but Hideo Kojima doesn't want to make Waggle Snake. This limitation has run its course and now Nintendo is trying to force this generation to end and is abandoning Wii for a console that explicitly admits they failed to force 3rd parties to do what they want.

    Handhelds are not a limitation, their portability is an advantage. They do what consoles can't do, which is let you game on the go. You can't compare these two markets. Some of the conventions of consoles don't necessarily carry over to handhelds. Handheld gamers skew a lot younger than console gamers, there will be different needs.

21. are we talking stereoscopic 3d or polygon 3d?

22. I can predict that exactly zero developers would be willing to work on gimped hardware for such a small return. Times change, developers desires change, and the expectations of the consumer change. A 2D games only consoles simply cannot happen in today's market.

23. An operating system powerful enough to deliver HD graphics would have to have a tremendous amount of memory and be able to handle enormous data at ridiculous speeds in order to animate HD sprites!

    But why bother? Any modern console can handle HD drawings mapped onto thin 3D objects comfortably… Just look at, say, Muramasa: the Demon Blade or Odin Sphere. And those were on the Wii and PS2! The 360 and PS3 can do a LOT better, as you can see from many of the downloadable games they have come up with…

24. Who would want to develop for it, and who would want to buy it when there are already 2 (soon to be 3) HD consoles that are perfectly capable of 2D games?

25. @CM30: Yeah but then you miss out. 🙁
    And as a person who loves ideas and supporting them: I hate it when I miss out on them.

26. I wish… We could see more stuff like KoF XIII

27. It's possible, but not practical. The way things are now, with your shooters and MMO's, any console that came out with only jam up 2D graphics would be swimming upstream. It would be an extremely limited group that would purchase it, classic loyalists and older gamers looking for nostalgia would be it's only market. The only exception i can think of, and it would be a pretty epic one, would be if it were crazy budget priced. Say, for example, the console cost under $100 and the software ran under $20? With a good software lineup, i would buy that crazy fast.

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